We find our heroes in discussion in the Gallery at Meltdown Comics where they were joined by one hundred of their closest friends and confidants.  When the tape started rolling, no one imagined the breadth of the discussion that was about to ensue.

Included for your pleasure and personal edification:

GM/FC x DC + W, where W = George Bush + eight years + necessity / 3.24 minute boiled egg x (Los Angeles – Scotland + friends + traffic + people + cops) / illness = a year of work

[2-dimensional universal story theory and the eternal nature of Superman] or
[Why Metropolis will outlast New York City]

At last it can be told!  The all-new, all-gay Authority you’ll never see!
Steve Rogers sighted at a circuit party in Palm Springs?  Can it be?
“You can hide a lot behind a shield.” says cunning Clive Barker
gmHOLLYWOOD revealed in one sentence!
“I often imagine myself in the shower with Anthony Perkins.” says genial Grant Morrison
All this and more is yours to discover with the push of a button!
Take a breath and dive in friend!  See you at the bottom!

CLIVE BARKER & GRANT MORRISON. A Convesation.

LIVE AT MELTDOWN COMICS Sunset Blvd. July, 1st, 2009

Transcript after the jump.

Download transcript here.

TRANSCRIPTION BY MARZ RICHARDS

C: YOU ARE HERE FOR A PERIOD OF TIME TO DO WHAT EXACTLY?

G: SERIOUS HOLLYWOOD WORK!  THEY DON’T WANT YOU TALKING ABOUT ANYTHING YOU DO AT ALL, SO IT’S KIND OF LIKE BEING IN THE C.I.A. [LAUGHTER]  BUT I’M HERE TO DO SOME REALLY COOL STUFF IN HOLLYWOOD WHICH THEY WON’T LET ME TALK ABOUT, SO LET’S JUST TALK ABOUT COMICS AND ALL THAT STUFF.

C: WELL LE

T’S JUST SAY WHO “THEY” ARE.  YOU’RE WORKING FOR WHAT COMPANY?

G: I’M WORKING FOR A COMPANY BUT I CAN’T SAY WHO THEY ARE.

C: OH MY GOD.  SO THIS WILL BE SOMETHING EXCITING.

G: WE JUST BOUGHT HOUSING.  WE’VE BEEN COMING OVER SO OFTEN, SHUFFLING BACK AND FORTH FROM SCOTLAND…

C: BUYING PROPERTY INDICATES THAT YOU’RE NOT JUST HERE FOR A COUPLE OF MONTHS…

G: YEAH, WELL, AND ALL OUR FRIENDS ARE IN LOS ANGELES, WE HAVE NO FRIENDS IN SCOTLAND…DON’T ASK ME WHY.

C: SORRY, THAT’S MY JOB TONIGHT.  WHY?  WHY?  WHY?  [LAUGHTER]   WHAT IS IT ABOUT L.A. THAT YOU FIND ATTRACTIVE?  IS IT THE CLIMATE, THE PEOPLE, WHAT IS IT?

G: THE FIRST THING, WHEN I CAME HERE, IT WAS REALLY WEIRD ‘CAUSE I HATED THE PLACE.  SO BIZZARE COMPARED TO BRITAIN.  I WAS 29 WHEN I CAME HERE.

C: WHAT WAS THAT FOR?

G: FOR THE ARKHAM ASYLUM THING.

C: YOU WERE 29 WHEN YOU DID ARKHAM ASYLUM?

G: YEH.  SO WE CAME OUT HERE AND THE GREAT THING FOR ME WAS FINDING OUT ANTHONY PERKINS LIKED ARKHAM ASYLUM.

C: NORMAN BATES LIKES ARKHAM ASYLUM!  HOW DID YOU THAT OUT?

G: SOMEONE TOLD ME.  SOMEONE CALLED TO TELL ME.

C:

OOH!  WERE YOU IN THE SHOWER?  THAT WAS A JOKE.  [LAUGHTER]

G: I OFTEN IMAGINE MYSELF IN THE SHOWER WITH ANTHONY PERKINS.  [LAUGHTER]  WHAT IS THE THING ABOUT L.A.?  WHY DID YOU COME HERE?  WAS IT THE MOVIES?

C: YEAH.  IT WAS, IT WAS LOVE FIRST, IT WAS A GUY I WAS IN LOVE WITH.  AND THAT WAS AN ERROR (ERA?)  BUT THE CITY WAS…TO ACTUALLY FIND THAT IT IS A MUCH MORE PEOPLE-FRIENDLY CITY THAN IT HAS THE REPUTATION OF BEING.  MY BEST MATE IN THE WORLD, ROBBIE OVER THERE [GESTURES TO MAN SITTING HOUSE LEFT], HE AND I WORK UP IN THE HILLS AND HE BRINGS HIS WIFE AND HIS KID OVER AT LUNCHTIME AND IT IS A VERY NICE FRIENDLY ATMOSPHERE AND IT’S VERY UN-HOLLYWOOD.  I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF REALLY GOOD THINGS HERE AND THE CLICHES DON’T REALLY FIT.  I THINK THIS IS A MUCH MORE HUMANE CITY THAN SAY, NEW YORK.

G: I’M SURE THERE ARE PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO ARE HAVING THE MOST BIZZARE FETISHES, BUT WE NEVER FIND THEM.

C: OH, DON’T WORRY.  THE FETISH SCENE HERE IS VERY STRONG.  WHICH I DON’T HAVE ANY INTEREST IN THAT.  THAT WAS ANOTHER JOKE.  [LAUGHTER]  SO, TALK TO US ABOUT COMICS.  WHILE WE WERE WAITING FOR EVERYTHING TO GET SET UP I WAS REMARKING TO THIS GENTLEMAN ABOUT THE SHEER VOLUME OF WORK THAT YOU PRODUCE AND I’D LOVE TO HEAR YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT AN AVERAGE WEEK IS, WHAT AN AVERAGE DAY IS.

G: YEH, WELL AN AVERAGE DAY IS JUST WAKING UP AND MAKING COMICS.  IT’S SIMPLE.  IF IT’S NOT COMICS IT’S SOME OF THE OTHER WORK I’M INVOLVED IN.  I’M USUALLY UP IN THE MORNING, AN EGG AND TOAST, EVERY SINGLE DAY – AN EGG AND TOAST.

C: IS IT FRIED OR BOILED?

G: NO, IT’S GOT TO BE BOILED.  [LAUGHTER]  AND IT HAS TO BE THIS SPECIFIC MOMENT BETWEEN THREE AND THREE AND A HALF MINUTES AND IF I DON’T GET THAT MOMENT THE EGG IS RUINED.

C: YEAH!  THERE’S THAT HORRIBLE THING WHERE THE EGG ACTUALLY LOOKS LIKE, SOME OF YOU WILL REALLY DISLIKE THIS, BUT IT LOOKS LIKE SEMEN.

G: YEH, THE ALBUMEN. [LAUGHTER]

C: WHERE IT’S GONE ALL TOUGH AND RUBBERY.  IT’S SOMEWHERE BETWEEN THE SEMEN AND THE RUBBER.

G: SO YOU’VE BEEN THERE?  YOU KNOW WHAT I’M TALKING ABOUT?

C:  OH, YEAH, YEAH.

G: EVERYONE’S LAUGHING, IT’S THE COMEDY OF RECOGNITION.  [LAUGHTER]

C: ANYBODY WHO HAS EVER WORN A CONDOM KNOWS THE COMBINATION OF SEMEN AND RUBBER.  [LAUGHTER]  IT’S A VERY PARTICULAR COMBINATION.  CHEWINESS IS NOT PLEASANT.

G: NO. [LAUGHTER]  AND UNDERWATER IT GOES WEE-WEE-WEE-WEE [GRANT GESTURES AS THE ITEM IN QUESTION EXPANDS IN LIQUID SPACE]

C: [LAUGHING] DON’T GO THERE!

G: WHICH BRINGS US TO COMICS!  [LAUGHTER]

C: BUT IT DOES, IN A WAY, BECAUSE, MY QUESTION FOR YOU IS: ARE YOU LOOKING FOR A BREAKTHROUGH IN CONTENT?  ARE YOU LOOKING FOR SOMETHING NEW TO DO?  IN TERMS OF…LET ME GO ANOTHER WAY WITH THIS…I PICKED UP MY PULL HERE FOR THE WEEK, 30 COMICS, 40 COMICS.  THERE WAS BLOOD ON EVERY.  SINGLE.  COVER.  WITHOUT EXCEPTION.  WHICH WAS ASTONISHING TO ME.  AND SOMETIMES A LOT OF BLOOD.  AND THE SEX IS, STILL, Y’KNOW, IT HAS TO BE DECODED.

G:  MM-HMM.

C: BUT IT’S STILL THERE.  DO YOU THINK WE CAN MAKE MORE SENSE OF THAT AS STORYTELLERS?  BECAUSE IT SEEMS TO ME IT’S PRESENT IN THE MATERIAL, BUT IT’S NOT REALLY BEING, WITH YOU AS AN EXCEPTION AND A FEW NOTABLE OTHERS, IT’S NOT REALLY BEING ANALYSIZED OR DEALT WITH.

G: WELL, I DO, HOPEFULLY, TRY TO DEAL WITH THAT STUFF.  BUT ALL THESE BOOKS ARE VERY SEXUALIZED.

C: YES.

G: THE VERY IDEA OF A SUPERHERO IS PRETTY SEXUALIZED.  IT LENDS ITSELF TO VIOLENCE.  BUT AT THE SAME TIME IT WAS CREATED FOR CHILDREN AND IT WASN’T INTENDED TO BE THIS.   ALTHOUGH IT HAS  THOSE ELEMENTS AND AS ADULTS WE CAN SEE THOSE ELEMENTS.  I’M TRYING TO…I’VE BEEN PREFERRING TO BURY THEM.  TAKE, FOR EXAMPLE, FAIRY TALES.  FAIRY TALES CAN BE VERY SEXUAL, BUT THEY’RE NOT.  YOU READ THEM AND THE MODERN WORLD FITS OVER THEM AND WE’RE SMART ENOUGH THAT WE CAN DECODE THAT.  I’M TRYING TO DO THAT SO A 14 YEAR OLD CAN READ THIS OR AN 8 YEAR OLD TO READ THROUGH IT AND EXTRACT SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

C: WITH RESPECT, IT SEEMS TO ME THE FINAL CRISIS MATERIAL, ESPECIALLY THE LAST ARC OF THAT, I DON’T THINK A 14 YEAR OLD IS GOING TO GET ANYWHERE NEAR UNDERSTANDING WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON THERE. [LAUGHTER]  I CERTAINLY WOULDN’T HAVE BEEN ABLE TO AT THE AGE OF 14.  JUST ON THE METAPHYSICAL LEVEL.  I THINK…I MEAN…HELP ME.  DID EVERYBODY UNDERSTAND WHAT WAS GOING ON IN THAT?  BECAUSE I WENT BACK TO IT FIVE TIMES.  READ THE WHOLE THING FIVE TIMES.  I ACTUALLY DREW A MAP.

G: YES?  IF ONLY YOU HAD GIVEN THAT TO ME!  [LAUGHTER]

C: AH, I WOULD HAVE SPOILED IT ALL.

G: NO, WITH THAT ONE I FELT IT WAS THE WHOLE THING OF WHEN YOU’RE LOOKING AT SOMETHING LIKE AN IDEA.  SOMEONE COMES TO YOU AND SAYS, “WE WANT YOU TO DO A COMIC CALLED FINAL CRISIS.  IT’S THE END OF THE DC UNIVERSE.”  SO FOR ME IT BECAME, THIS IS REALLY DARK, THIS IS REALLY MISERABLE, IT’S ABOUT DARKSEID, AND I HAD TO THEN THINK, “HOW DO I CONFRONT THAT REALLY HORRIBLE IDEA?”

C: YEAH.

G: AND I SPENT A YEAR IN THE COMPANY OF DARKSEID, JUST A SHIT WHO HATES HIS OWN (UNINTELLIGBLE).  HOW DO YOU THINK THROUGH THE MIND OF SOMEONE-

C: HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH THAT?

G: BY BEING REALLY MISERABLE AND SICK OVER A YEAR AND SOMEHOW TRYING TO PROCESS IT THROUGH THE WORK.  BUT, I WAS LOOKING AT THE BIG PICTURE.  THE DC UNIVERSE BEGAN WAY BACK, WAY BACK.  1938.  IN THE 50′S THE SILVER AGE HAPPENED AND THE DC UNIVERSE SPLIT INTO SEVERAL UNIVERSES.  THERE WAS EARTH-2, THERE WAS EARTH-3, THERE WAS EARTH-4.

C: AND THIS WAS ‘38?

G: HM?

C: YOU SAID THIS WAS 1938?

G: NO, THE UNIVERSE ITSELF BEGAN WITH SUPERMAN IN THE 30′S-

C: GOT IT.

G: -AND IT BEGAN TO SPLIT IN, WHATEVER…SOME GUY’S HERE, MAYBE KNOWS.  WHAT WAS THE ISSUE OF THE FLASH WITH “THE FLASH OF TWO WORLDS”?

MARK WAID (IN THE AUDIENCE, SECOND ROW, OFF MIC): DON’T DO THIS.  DON’T FUCK WITH ME LIKE THIS.  [EXTENDED LAUGHTER]

G: NO, YOU WOULD KNOW, C’MON.

C: THAT WAS REALLY MEAN.  NO, NOW SERIOUSLY. [LAUGHTER]

G: WHAT YEAR WAS IT MARK?

MARK WAID: HANG YOUR OWN SELF, GO ON.  TO GET ON WITH IT IT WAS FLASH #123.  SHUT UP.

G: WHAT YEAR WAS THAT?  [LAUGHTER]

MARK WAID; STOP.  STOP.  STOP.

G:  WHAT, WHAT DAY WAS IT? [LAUGHTER]  AND WHO WAS WITH YOU AND WHAT WERE THEY WEARING?  [LAUGHTER]  SO FROM THAT STORY, THE DC UNIVERSE SPLIT INTO NUMEROUS VERSIONS OF ITSELF.  AND THE BASIS OF THAT WAS VIBRATION WAS INVOLVED.

C: YES.

G: THE IDEA WAS THAT EARTH-2 VIBRATED SLIGHTLY DIFFERENTLY THAN EARTH-1 BUT OCCUPIED THE EXACT SAME SPACE.  SO I GET MY BRIEF HISTORY THE DC UNIVERSE, GO BACK TO THE ORIGIN OF THE DC UNIVERSE AND WHAT YOU THINK IS A VIBRATION AND THERE’S A MULTIVERSE OF WORLDS OF DIFFERENT VIBRATIONS-

C: AND THERE ARE?

G: 52.  SO I THOUGHT, IF THERE’S 52 VIBRATIONS, DOESN’T THAT MAKE SOUND?  ISN’T THAT MUSIC?

C: YEAH.  HARMONIES.

G: SO THE FIRST THING THIS HAS TO BE ABOUT IS MUSIC.  SO ULTIMATELY SUPERMAN EMITS A SOUND WHICH DESTROYS DARKSEID, BECAUSE THE WHOLE UNIVERSE IS BASED ON VIBRATION.  SO I WAS LOOKING AT THE BASICS OF THE DC UNIVERSE AND TRYING TO BREAK THEM ALL BACK DOWN TO WHAT THEY WERE.  BREAK BATMAN DOWN TO A GUY STANDING THERE, FINALLY USING A GUN AGAINST THE ENEMIES THAT MADE HIM WHAT HE IS.  SUPERMAN FINALLY BEING THE LAST LIGHT IN THE UNIVERSE WHEN EVERYTHING GOES BLACK, HE’S GOT ENOUGH INSIDE HIM TO RE-EMIT IT AND START THE UNIVERSE AGAIN.  WONDER WOMAN KIND OF HAS THIS DARK BONDAGE ELEMENT WHICH I COULDN’T PROCESS THROUGH, SO WONDER WOMAN REMAINED IN THIS ALMOST BEASTIAL FORM.

C: TALK TO ME ABOUT THAT.  BECAUSE THAT WAS THE ONE PART THAT SEEMED UNREALIZED.  WAS THAT BECAUSE OF THE BONDAGE ELEMENT?

G: IT WENT INTO ANOTHER PROJECT ON WONDER WOMAN THAT I’M CURRENTLY CONSIDERING.  IT REALLY BECAME FASCINATING.  I’M TAKING EVERYTHING BACK TO THE BASICS AND THE BASICS OF WONDER WOMAN ARE SHE WAS CREATED BY WILLIAM MOULTON MARSTON, WHO WAS A PSYCHOLOGIST WHO CREATED THE LIE DETECTOR OF ALL THINGS.

C: REALLY?

G: HIS IDEA WAS THAT UTOPIA WOULD BE ACHIEVED IF MEN WERE PLACED IN SUBJUGATION TO WOMEN.  THAT WAS HIS THING, MAYBE HE WAS RIGHT, WHO KNOWS?  BUT THIS WAS HIS BIG IDEA, SO WONDER WOMAN WAS STRANGE, VERY STRANGE ALONG THE LINES OF HER GET-UP, BONDAGE, SLIGHTLY DISTURBED SEXUALITY.

C: SLIGHTLY.  [LAUGHTER]

G: AND EVEN THOUGH THE CHARACTER’S BEEN DEVELOPED THROUGH THE YEARS, PARTICULARLY IN THE 70′S WHEN YOU HAD GLORIA STEINEM AND THE FEMINIST MOVEMENT PICKED WONDER WOMAN AS AN ICONIC REPRESENTATION AND KIND OF GAVE IT A HEALTH THAT IT DIDN’T HAVE PRIOR TO THAT.

C: YOU MEAN A HEALTH IN TERMS OF PHYSICAL HEALTH?

G: NO, A HEALTH IN TERMS OF WOMEN’S PERSPECTIVE ON THE CHARACTER AND A NEW WAY OF SEEING HER.  BUT THAT DIDN’T REALLY PERSIST.  I FEEL IT THE BONDAGE ELEMENT, THE REALLY WEIRD, DARK ELEMENTS OF WONDER WOMAN HAVEN’T BEEN ADEQUATELY DEALT WITH, BECAUSE WONDER WOMAN REMAINS A REALLY BIZARRE UNTOUCHABLE CHARACTER.  SHE SHOULD REPRESENT WOMEN IN THE SAME WAY THAT SUPERMAN REPRESENTS MEN.  SUPERMAN GETS TO HAVE A GIRLFIREND, GET OFF WITH HER, HAVE A WIFE AND WONDER WOMAN LACKS SEXUALITY WHEN SHE SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO EXPRESS IT IN SOME WAY.

C: WELL, SHE’D HAVE TO BE ON TOP. [LAUGHTER]

G: YEAH, SHE’D HAVE TO BE ON TOP.  BREAKING STEVE TREVOR’S BONES.  GRINDING HIS HIPS TO POWDER. [LAUGHTER]

C: I’M QUITE SERIOUS, THAT WOULD BE THE PROBLEM, WOULDN’T IT?

G: YES, TO DO THAT BUT TO MAKE IT WORK, TO GIVE HER A SEXUALITY THAT ISN’T EXPLOTATIVE, BECAUSE THAT’S TOO EASY TO DO.  ALSO, TO GIVE HER POWER -

C: BUT, FOR ME, PROMETHEA ACHIEVED QUITE NICELY IN PLACES THAT NICE BALANCE.

G: YEAH, PROMETHEA DID A GOOD JOB OF IT.

C: MAGIC AND POWER, BUT AT THE SAME TIME IT WASN’T A SINGULARITY BECAUSE YOU HAD WOMEN REPRESENTED THROUGH VARIOUS CHARACTERS.  WONDER WOMAN IS HER OWN SELF.

G: WONDER WOMAN HAS TO BE ALL OF THOSE.  PROMETHEA HAD PROMETHEA AND A LITTLE PANTHEON OF OTHER PROMETHEAS THAT REPRESENTED SPECIFIC TRAITS IN THE HUMAN CONSCIOUSNESS.  WONDER WOMAN HAS TO BE ALL OF THOSE.

C: AND THAT’S IMPOSSIBLE, ISN’T IT?

G: I DON’T THINK IT’S IMPOSSIBLE.  IT’S THE PROBLEM I’M CURRENTLY TRYING TO SOLVE.

C: THEN IT ISN’T IMPOSSIBLE.

G: BUT AS YOU SEE, IN FINAL CRISIS, I HADN’T SOLVED THAT PROBLEM.  SO I KINDA LEFT THAT AND THERE’S THAT HOLE, THAT DARK GAP

C: I THINK IT’S A SMALL THING THAT NEEDS TO BE RESOLVED IN A OTHERWISE INCREDIBLE SERIES OF SOLUTIONS.  ONE OF THE THINGS THAT STRIKES ME IS HOW DAMNED DARK FINAL CRISIS ACTUALLY ENDS UP BEING ALL THE WAY TO THE LAST FUCKING PAGE.  DID DC SAY TO YOU AT ANY POINT, “LOOK, THIS IS FURTHER THAN WE THOUGHT YOU WERE GOING TO GO.”?

G: NO, THEY JUST RAN AWAY.

C: THEY RAN AWAY?

G: THEY DIDN’T SAY ANYTHING TO ME.  THEY ALLOWED ME TO DO WHAT I WANTED.  IT WAS ACTUALLY OKAY.  THE WHOLE THING WITH MARY MARVEL.  I JUST WANTED TO RUB PEOPLE’S NOSES IN THIS WHOLE DARK MARY MARVEL IDEA.  SHORT SKIRT MARY MARVEL.  I WANTED TO TAKE THAT BEYOND THE SHORT SKIRT INTO THREATENING MADNESS.  AGAIN, THAT WAS THE EXPLOTATIVE SEXUALITY, THE IDEA OF THE OLD MAN BEHIND THE YOUNG GIRL’S EYES.  THE FETISHITIC APPROACH, THE YOUNG SUPERHEROES-

C: YOU’VE ALSO BEEN IN THAT PLACE BEFORE.  TALK TO ME A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE, BECAUSE THIS REALLY FACSINATES ME, THE WAY THAT YOU USE YOUR OWN PSYCHIC STATE AND YOUR OWN RECONSTRUCTION OR DECONSTRUCTION AS PART OF THE STORY YOU WERE TELLING.

G: AS I SAID TO YOU EARLIER, I NEVER GET BLOCKED BECAUSE SOMETHING’S ALWAYS HAPPENING.  SOMETHING’S ALWAYS GOING ON JUST IN LIFE.  Y’KNOW EVEN WHEN MY FATHER DIES IT CAN GO STRAIGHT INTO SUPERMAN #6.  I CAN ORGANIZE THOSE THOUGHTS AND THOSE FEELINGS BY WRITING A STORY ABOUT SUPERMAN WHICH HOPEFULLY RESONATES WITH EVERYONE WHOSE FATHER HAS DIED.

C: I LOST MY FATHER IN ‘92.  I COULDN’T GET THROUGH IT.  I HAD TO (UNINTELLIGBLE) FOR A WHILE.  SO, YEAH, IT RESONATES.

G: SO IT IS THAT, IT SHOULD WORK THAT WAY.  EVERYTHING THAT COMES INTO YOUR HEAD SHOULD BE ABLE TO BE PROCESSED BY YOU WHEN ASSEMBLED.  IT’S WHY I LOVE COMICS SO MUCH.  THEY’RE SO DIRECT.  THERE’S SO LITTLE EDITORIAL INTERFERENCE.  THERE AREN’T NOTES, THERE AREN’T HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE ON YOUR BACK, THERE ISN’T A BIG BUDGET.

C: SO YOU’RE COMPARING THIS WITH THE MOVIE-MAKING EXPERIENCE.

G: YEAH.  RIGHT NOW, BY COMPARISON TO THOSE EXPERIENCES, THERE’S A LOT OF MONEY INVOLVED SO THE MACHINE AT THE END HAS TO BE SOMETHING THAT APPEALS TO THE WIDEST POSSIBLE DEMOGRAPHIC.  BUT WITH COMICS YOU CAN GO INTO A LOT MORE DETAIL.  THEY DON’T COST A LOT TO MAKE.  THEY CAN BE DRAWN FAIRLY RAPIDLY.  THEY’RE DIRECT, IT’S IMAGINATION ON THE PAGE.  I THINK OF THEM ALWAYS, WHERE THESE GUYS SAT, LIKE MEDIEVAL MONKS HUNCHED OVER A TABLE, ACTUALLY PHYSICALLY DRAWING BATMAN AND BRINGING THAT TO LIFE.

C: YOU ARE DOING THE SAME THING WITH YOUR WRITING, I’M DOING THE SAME THING WITH MY PAINTING.  I LOVE THE IDEA OF RETURNING TO THE VERY SIMPLE, OIL AND A BRUSH.

G: DIRECT CONTACT BETWEEN IMAGINATION AND THE MEDIUM.

C: ABSOLUTELY.  SO YOU DON’T GET A LOT OF EDITORIAL STUFF?  YOU DON’T GET A LOT OF NOTES?

G: FORTUNATELY I’VE BEEN A FAIRLY SUCCESSFUL OVER THE YEARS, EVEN IF IT’S A BIT ODD, EVEN WHEN THEY DON’T GET IT.  IN FINAL CRISIS A LOT OF PEOPLE DIDN’T GET IT BUT IT DID IMMENSELY WELL.

C: DID YOU FIND, AFTER THE FACT, THAT THEY OWNED UP TO THE FACT THEY DIDN’T GET IT?

G: THEY OWNED UP ALL THE WAY THROUGH.  THERE WAS NEVER ANY POINT TO PEOPLE OWNING UP TO THE FACT THAT THEY DIDN’T GET IT.

C: SO PEOPLE SAID, “HEY, IT’S DOING REALLY WELL GRANT, BUT WE DON’T HAVE A CLUE WHAT IT FUCKING MEANS!”  [LAUGHTER]

G: PRETTY MUCH, YEAH.  THAT’S WHY A LOT OF THEM ARE WORKING AT DC.  THEY DO FAVOR THE ARTIST IN THAT WAY.

C: YOU SEE THAT DIFFERENTLY AT MARVEL?

G: I THINK MARVEL’S MUCH…Y’KNOW I LOVE MARVEL COMICS, I READ MARVEL COMICS EVERY MONTH, BUT THERE’S MORE OF A HOUSE STYLE, THERE’S MORE OF AN ATTEMPT TO CREATE A UNIVERSE BECAUSE THAT’S WHAT MARVEL IS ALL ABOUT.  DC FAVORS THE CREATOR.  WHICH IS WHY SOMETIMES THE CONTINUITY CAN GO OFF-KILTER, BECAUSE IN A LOT OF CASES THEY’LL JUST SAY, “WELL, THAT’S OKAY, ROBIN WAS HAPPY THEN.”  I ACTUALLY PREFER THAT ATMOSPHERE.

C: I AGREE.  LET’S BEGIN, SINCE WE HAVE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF TIME, TO TAKE SOME QUESTIONS FROM THE AUDIENCE.

G: QUESTIONS?  HAVE YOU GOT ANYTHING?

QUESTION 1: GRANT, WHERE DO YOU DRAW YOUR CREATIVE STRENGTH FROM NOWADAYS?  IS IT FROM YOUR RELATIONSHIPS WITH YOUR FRIENDS, YOUR WIFE, IS IT MAGIC OR WHAT YOU’RE SEEING OUT IN THE WORLD?

G: IT’S ALL OF THAT.  I GUESS, PARTICULARLY, RELATIONSHIPS.  Y’KNOW, I LIVE IN THE COUNTRY AND I’M REALLY GETTING INTO THAT WHOLE EX-URBAN THING OF WATCHING ANIMALS AND WATCHING THE CLOUDS.  IT’S GETTING QUITE SHAMANIC.

C: SO WHAT WILL YOU DO HERE WHEN THERE ARE NO CLOUDS?

G: OH, THERE ARE.  IT’S AMAZING.  WE WAKE UP TO BIRDSONG RIGHT OFF SUNSET.  BUT HERE IS DEFINITELY DIFFERENT.  HERE IS FRIENDS.  HERE IS TRAFFIC.  HERE NOISE IS STANDARD AND THERE’S PEOPLE WALKING UP AND DOWN THE STREET ALL THE TIME AND THERE’S POLICE CARS.  SO THAT’S COOL AS WELL.  I JUST GET IT FROM EVERYWHERE.  FROM THE WHOLE GEORGE BUSH ERA, OF WHICH FINAL CRISIS IS KIND OF A RESPONSE TO.  TRYING TO TALK ABOUT THE TYPES OF MATERIAL WE WERE SEEING THROUGH THAT VERY DARK, REGRESSIVE PERIOD.  I THINK WE PROBABLY NEEDED THE PERIOD, IT HAD TO HAPPEN BUT AT THE SAME TIME NEW THINGS ARE HAPPENING SO I’M GETTING NEW ENERGY NOW FROM A MORE POSITIVE THING.

C: CAN I ASK – I’LL GET BACK TO YOU GUYS IN JUST ONE MOMENT – BUT HAVING SAID ALL YOU HAVE JUST SAID ABOUT THE CREATIVE FREEDOM YOU HAVE NOW GOT, ISN’T IT TREADING DANGEROUS GROUND TO BE WORKING WITH A STUDIO IN TERMS OF THOSE FREEDOMS?

G: YEAH, BUT FORTUNATELY BECAUSE I’VE GOT THOSE FREEDOMS, IT’S A LEARNING EXPERINCE FOR ME.  I NEEDED TO LEARN THE HOLLYWOOD WAY OF WRITING.  THREE ACT STRUCTURE, THE ROBERT MCKEE THING.

C: IT’S JUST BULLSHIT.  [LAUGHTER]

G: ABSOLUTELY.  IT’S A PURE ORGANIZATIONAL METHOD TO MAKE A MACHINE TO APPEAL TO THE WIDEST POSSIBLE DEMOGRAPHIC.  IMAGINATION AND WORDS CAN DO ANYTHING.  THERE ARE NO RULES.  TO LEARN NEW RULES INTERESTS ME BECAUSE ONCE YOU KNOW THEM YOU CAN PLAY WITH THOSE AS WELL. IT’S MADE MY COMICS BETTER TO KNOW THOSE RULES.  I’VE DONE PLAYS, I’VE WRITTEN COMICS, I’VE WRITTEN JOURNALISM.  ALL OF THEM DEMAND DIFERENT STRENGTHS.  SCREENPLAYS ARE LIKE LEARNING TO WRITE HAIKU.  IT’S A SKILL TO HAVE BUT IT’S NOT THE BE-ALL AND END-ALL OF WRITING BY ANY MEANS.

C: I HATE IT WHEN PEOPLE SAY, “OH, I LOVE THAT BOOK.  WHEN’S IT GOING TO BE A MOVIE?” [LAUGHTER]  ANOTHER QUESTION?

QUESTION 2: HOW MUCH DOES THE WORK OF PHILIP K DICK AFFECT OR INFLUENCE YOUR WRITING?

G: THIS IS WEIRD BECAUSE I DON’T REALLY READ PHILIP K DICK AT ALL.  I STILL HAVEN’T READ PHILIP K DICK.  I READ THE BIOGRAPHY.    I READ VALIS.

C: YOU READ VALIS?  GOOD GOD.  [LAUGHTER]

G: THAT SAYS SOMETHING ABOUT ME.  I READ THAT, I READ TIME OUT OF JOINT, I READ THE TRANSMIGRATION OF TIMOTHY ARCHER. THAT’S THE ONLY ONES I’VE READ.  MY WIFE IS A HUGE FAN.  SHE’S GOT ALL THE BOOKS, BUT SURPRISINGLY I’VE NEVER READ THEM.  MY MOTHER WAS A SCIENCE-FICTION FAN SO I REBELLED AGAINST IT AND REFUSED TO READ SCIENCE-FICTION.

QUESTION  3: WHEN DECONSTRUCTION AND POST-MODERNISM BECOME THE NORMS OF THE COMICS MEDIUM, WHERE DO YOU SEE COMICS STILL BEING MIND-BLOWING?

G: I DON’T KNOW, THAT’S FOR SOMEONE ELSE TO COME UP WITH, MAYBE YOU.  I THINK IT’S STARTING TO GET WEIRD AGAIN BECAUSE IT’S GONE THROUGH A REALISTIC PHASE, FOR THE LAST TEN YEARS OR SO IT’S BEEN ABOUT MILITARY-INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX AND REAL-LIFE SUPERHEROES AND LIFE ON THE STREETS.

C: POLITICS, THE WHOLE IDEA OF THE REGISTRATION ACT, TO ME AT LEAST, IT WAS KIND OF COOL FOR A COUPLE OF MONTHS, BUT THEN IT WAS, LIKE – “OKAY!”  I DON’T KNOW HOW YOU FANS FELT ABOUT IT BUT FOR ME IT GOT OLD RATHER QUICKLY JUST BECAUSE IT WAS REAL.  I LOVE IT WHEN YOU JUST PULL THE PLUG ON REALITY AND JUST FLY, MAN.  I LOVE THAT STUFF.

G: THAT’S THE BEST FOR ME BECAUSE, IF COMICS ARE BASED ON THE NEWSPAPERS, ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS READ THE NEWSPAPERS AND YOU KNOW WHAT’S GOING TO BE IN YOUR COMICS NEXT MONTH AND THAT’S NOT COOL, Y’KNOW?  AS I ALWAYS SAY, EVERY SINGLE PERSON IS LOOKING AT THIS WORLD UNIQUELY.  YOU GUYS, ALL OF YOU, YOU’LL ONLY HAPPEN ONCE IN ETERNITY, AND YOU’LL ONLY SEE WHAT YOU’RE SEEING THIS ONE TIME.  ALTHOUGH WE ALL HAVE SIMILAR EXPERIENCES EVERYONE IS LIKE LITTLE SNOWFLAKES, YOUR VIEW IS SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT, EVERYONE’S VIEW CARRIES.  I WANT TO HEAR WHAT YOU ALL SEE!

C: I LOVE THE LONE SNOWFLAKE’S VIEW.  THAT’S A BEAUTIFUL WORLD.  ANOTHER QUESTION?

QUESTION 4: IN FINAL CRISIS – OKAY, SO…[IMMEDIATE LAUGHTER]

G: DOT DOT DOT!

QUESTION 4: SUPERGIRL AND MARY MARVEL ARE FIGHTING AND THEY FALL THROUGH THE WAREHOUSE, SOMETHING HAPPENS, ONE OF THEM SAYS “EW.”  WHAT HAPPENED?

G: YOUR GUESS IS AS GOOD AS MINE.  I WASN’T THERE.  [LAUGHTER]  I WASN’T THERE!

C: THAT IS THE ULTIMATE GET-OUT.  LOVE THAT!  YOU GENIUNELY DON’T KNOW?

G: (LAUGHING) I HADN’T ACTUALLY CONSIDERED IT.  I KNEW SOMETHING NASTY WAS GOING ON.  JUST IMAGINE THAT AMORPHOUS SQUIRMING THING.

QUESTION 5: LOOKING BACK ON FINAL CRISIS, DID YOU TELL THE STORY YOU WANTED TO TELL?  LOOKING BACK ON IT DID YOU SAY, “THIS IS THE WAY I WANTED IT TO COME OUT.”?  WAS THERE ANYTHING YOU WOULD DO DIFFERENTLY OR DO YOU NOT WORRY ABOUT STUFF LIKE THAT?

G: IT’S PART OF THE PROCESS THAT IT IS WHAT IT IS.  ALL THE INFLUENCES THAT CAME TO BEAR ON IT OVER THAT YEAR WERE A PART OF THE CONSTRUCTION OF IT.  I JUST HAVE A DIFFERENT VIEW OF THESE THINGS.  AS I’VE SAID, CERTAIN COMICS WANT YOU TO BELIEVE THAT THEY’RE TELLING STORIES ABOUT A REAL WORLD SOMEWHERE ELSE.  LIKE THE MARVEL UNIVERSE IS LIKE A REAL NEW YORK IN A PARALLEL UNIVERSE, BUT NO ONE KNOWS WHERE IT IS.  TO ME, WHAT’S MOST INTERESTING IN COMICS IS THAT THEY’RE ACTUALLY A REAL CONTINUUM WITHIN THEIR OWN CONTINUUM.  THEY ARE A TWO-DIMENSIONAL LAYER – SOME OF YOU HAVE HEARD ME TALK ABOUT THIS BEFORE – BUT THE WHOLE OF A COMIC UNIVERSE IS ALL THE PAGES IT’S BEEN PRINTED ON.  EVERY STORY THAT’S EVER HAPPENED, EVEN THE CONTRADICTORY ONES, THEY ALL FORM THE UNIVERSE.  IT’S JUST THAT THE RULES OF A PAPER UNIVERSE ARE DIFFERENT FROM THE RULES OF THE ONE WE LIVE IN.  SO THE COMIC THING, THE ACTUAL ARTIFACT IS WHAT’S REAL.  I DON’T HAVE TO THINK THAT THIS IS HAPPENING IN METROPOLIS ON EARTH-ZERO, IT’S HAPPENING RIGHT IN MY HANDS.  SUPERMAN’S WORLD IS DRAWN, IT’S CREATED BY HUMAN BEINGS, IT’S ASSEMBLED BY WRITERS AND ARTISTS.  THAT IS HIS REAL WORLD.  AND AS I ALWAYS SAY, IT’S MORE OF A WORLD THAN OUR WORLD BECAUSE I’LL BE DEAD AND SUPERMAN WILL STILL CONTINUE.  HIS WORLD IS STRONGER THAN OURS.  METROPOLIS WILL OUTLAST NEW YORK.  SO THAT WORLD WE’VE CREATED, HELD TOGETHER BY DEVOTED GENERATIONS OF PRIESTS WHO GO IN THERE AND MAKE SURE THAT WORLD LASTS AND PERSISTS INTO THE FUTURE, HAVE MADE SOMETHING BIGGER AND MORE DURABLE AND MORE PURE.  THEY’VE CREATED CHARACTERS WHO ARE BETTER THAN HUMAN.  EVEN GOD COULDN’T MANAGE THAT ONE. [LAUGHTER]

C: OR WE DON’T KNOW ABOUT IT.

G: YEAH, WE DON’T KNOW ABOUT IT.  AT LEAST WE KNOW THAT HUMANS ARE CAPABLE OF CREATING THINGS THAT REPRESENT THEIR OWN HIGHEST ASPIRATIONS AND THEY CAN ACTUALLY GIVE VOICE TO THEM AND MAKE THEM DO THINGS THAT REPRESENT THEIR HIGHEST ASPIRATIONS.  SO THOSE WORLDS, TO ME, THEY’RE ACTUALLY REAL.  THEY EXIST HERE AND NOW.  YOU CAN PICK UP THE TWO-DIMENSIONAL WORLD AND LOOK AT IT AND MANIPULATE IT AND EVEN, IF YOU’RE LUCKY, GET TO ADD TO IT.

C: TWICE NOW, BOTH TALKING ABOUT THE MONKS EARLIER AND YOU MENTIONED PRIESTS A MOMENT AGO.  YOU MADE A RELIGIOUS CONNECTION.  AND YOU MENTIONED THINGS GETTING SHAMANIC.

G: YEAH, YEAH.

C: IS THERE AN ELEMENT OF RELIGIOUSNESS IN THIS, IN WHAT YOU DO?  NOT TALKING ABOUT MAGIC NOW, TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING CLOSER TO CONVENTIONAL RELIGION, THE DISCIPLINE.  YOU HAVE TO BE AN IMMENSELY DISCIPLINED MAN TO – YOU PLAY IT OFF AS IF IT’S JUST, OH, SOMETHING YOU DO.  BUT THE AMOUNT OF WORK YOU PRODUCE IS ASTONISHING.  AND THE STRUCTURE IS ASTONISHING.  I’VE PRODUCED A FAIR AMOUNT OF WORK MYSELF, BUT I LOOK AT A YEAR OF YOUR WORK AND I GO OH MY FUCKING GOD, LOOK AT THIS.  IT’S AMAZING.  DO YOU ORGANIZE?  DO YOU HAVE A NOTICE BOARD WHERE ALL THIS STUFF IS PINNED UP?  HOW DOES IT WORK TO PHYSICALLY KEEP ALL THESE STORIES IN THE AIR AT THE SAME TIME?

G: I JUST HAVE NOTEBOOKS AND THEY’RE LITERALLY IN THE AIR ALL THE TIME.  ONE PAGE WILL HAVE ONE STORY, MAYBE TWO PAGES DEEP ANOTHER STORY.  HAND-WRITTEN, HAND-DRAWN, ALWAYS STARTS WITH DRAWING.  I KNOW YOU DRAW AS WELL.  THESE IMAGES COME FAST AS DRAWINGS AND THEN THEY TURN INTO STORIES.

C: WHAT ARE YOU DOING WITH THOSE NOTEBOOKS?

G: PILING THEM UP.

C: WELL I WAS GOING TO SAY, THEY SEEM TO BE AN INVALUABLE RESOURCE.  I’VE SEEN, WE’VE ALL SEEN REPRODUCTIONS OF THOSE PAGES IN THE BACK OF EDITIONS.  THAT CONNECTION WHEN WE SAW THE SCRIPT AND YOUR SKETCHES, GOD, I WANTED MORE OF THAT.  I REALLY WANTED MORE OF THAT.  I WOULD LOVE SOME HUGE BOOK.  WOULDN’T THAT BE INTERESTING?  I FEEL LIKE I’M NOT GETTING ENOUGH.  I DON’T UNDERSTAND THE COMPLEXITY OF THIS ACHIEVEMENT AND I DON’T THINK ANY OF US DO, DO WE?  IT’S A MYSTERY TO ME.  DO YOU EVER HAVE ARGUMENTS WITH ARTISTS, FIGHTS WITH ARTISTS?  I MEAN FIGHT IN A SENSE OF NO, IT CANNOT BE THAT WAY.

G: NOT SO MUCH WITH THE ARTISTS, NO.  THE COLLABORATIVE THING IN COMICS MEANS YOU CAN’T REALLY BE DICTATORIAL.  SOMETIMES THE ARTISTS DON’T DO WHAT YOU WANT.

C: WHAT HAPPENS THEN?

G: YOU JUST HAVE TO ACCEPT IT.  THE NUANCE IS GONE.  THE COMIC DOESN’T EXPRESS WHAT IT WAS SUPPOSED TO EXPRESS.  EVEN THOUGH THE WORDS ARE THERE, THE EXPRESSION ISN’T THERE, THE BODY LANGUAGE ISN’T THERE AND SO THE MEANING OF THE IMAGE IS LOST.  THAT CAN HAPPEN.

C: IS THAT BECAUSE, USUALLY, THE ARTIST SIMPLY HASN’T UNDERSTOOD WHAT YOU INTENDED?

G: PRESUMABLY, YEAH.  I GUESS THAT’S WHAT HAPPENS.  WHEN I’M DEALING WITH SOMEONE LIKE FRANK QUITELY OR CAMERON STEWART OR PEOPLE WHO ARE VERY SENSITIVE TO THAT ELEMENT OF THE WRITING, THEY’RE VERY GOOD AT DOING THE ACTING OF THE CHARACTER.  FOR SOME PEOPLE I’VE NOT DESCRIBED IT WELL ENOUGH OR ARTICULATED IT WELL ENOUGH OR IT’S JUST NOT AN EMOTION THAT THEY’RE ABLE TO DRAW.

C: RIGHT.  RIGHT.  QUESTIONS?

QUESTION 6: I WAS WONDERING IF YOU COULD TELL US OF YOUR COLLABORATION WITH GENESIS P. ORRIDGE AND [TITLE OF BOOK]

G: THERE REALLY IS NO COLLABORATION.  WE TRIED TO DO SOMETHING BACK EIGHT YEARS AGO AND THEN I COULDN’T MAKE IT OVER TO NEW YORK TO DO THE WORK SO IT JUST DIDN’T HAPPEN.  I HAVEN’T SPOKEN TO GEN FOR QUITE AWHILE, ACTUALLY.  I’M AFRAID THERE’S NO NEWS ON THAT ONE, NOTHING GOING ON.

QUESTION 6: AND [TITLE OF BOOK]?

G: IT’S TURNED INTO SOMETHING ELSE.  IT WAS A NOVEL I STARTED TO WRITE AND THEN IT WAS, “OH!  YOU’RE REALLY GOOD AT WRITING NOVELS!”  [LAUGHTER]  I JUST REMEMBER DENNIS POTTER WROTE THIS THING THAT SAID, SOME GUY WRITING A NOVEL AND HE SAYS, “BLOODY DESCRIPTIONS OF THE SKY!”  AND I LOOKED AT MY OWN WRITING AND I THOUGHT, “BLOODY DESCRIPTIONS OF THE SKY.”  SO I PREFER TO WORK WITH PICTURES.  SO IT’S TURNED INTO SOMETHING ELSE.  I’LL PROBABLY DO IT AS A COMIC THING BECAUSE THAT’S THE MEDIUM I PREFER TO WORK IN.

QUESTION 7: HAS THE CITY OF LOS ANGELES INSPIRED YOUR WRITING IN ANY WAY AND IF SO, HOW?

G: OH YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.  THE NEW STUFF I’M WRITING IS REALLY L.A.-INSPIRED.

C: HOW SO?

G: IT’S JUST GOT THE FEELING.  THE LAST ONE I DID WAS QUITE PASTORAL, LIKE SUPERMAN AND SEVEN SOLDIERS ARE PASTORAL BECAUSE I WAS LIVING IN THE COUNTRY.  SO THERE’S THAT FOLK TALE ELEMENT.  THERE’S A SLOWNESS TO IT, THERE’S A DELIBERATENESS TO IT.  THE LOS ANGELES STUFF IT’S PRETTY…COOL, POPPY STUFF.  THERE’S PEOPLE, MEETING PEOPLE AGAIN AND HANGING OUT, BUZZING AROUND IN CARS, WHICH I DON’T DO MUCH. SO IT’S GOT THAT ATMOSPHERE OF L.A., IT’S DRIVEN BY THE RHYTHMS OF L.A.

C: DO YOU FIND ALTERED STATES OF VARIOUS KINDS IMPORTANT TO THE WRITING PROCESS, WHETHER ACHIEVED THROUGH MAGIC OR PORRIDGE OR…?

G: THERE’S ALWAYS AN ALTERED STATE.  WHEN YOU’RE WRITING, IT’S ALL…DRUG INDUCED STATES, SICKNESS INDUCED STATES ARE ALL VERY INTERESTING, BUT IT’S NOT WHAT MAKES YOU A WRITER.  WHAT THEY CAN MAYBE DO IS BRING OUT ASPECTS OR ANGLES OF THE WRITING YOU DIDN’T KNOW OR AMPLIFY CERTAIN TRAITS OR MAKE YOU THINK YOU’RE BETTER THAN YOU ARE.  THEN YOU GO BACK AND READ IT AND ITS LIKE SHERLOCK HOLMES ON A BINGE.  SO, YEAH, ALL THESE THINGS PLAY A ROLE BUT NOTHING CAN DESCRIBE THAT MOMENT OF ABSORPTION IN THE WORK.  THINGS CATCH FIRE, IT REALLY STARTS TO FLOW AND YOU LOSE CONTROL.  ALL YOU DO IS –

C: CHANNEL.

G: YEAH, IT’S ALMOST AS IF THE WORDS APPEAR ON THE PAGE BEFORE YOUR HANDS WRITE THEM.

C: IT’S A HORRIBLE CLICHÉ, BUT THERE’S SOMETHING TO THE STUFF TAKING CHARGE IS KIND OF MAGIC.

G: THAT’S WHY I HAD THE IDEA THAT MAYBE THERE’S SOMETHING ACTUALLY HAPPENING.  THE EMERGENCE THEORY.

C: OF COURSE.

G: AND THE NOTION THAT MAYBE YOUR STORY HAS BECOME COMPLEX ENOUGH TO START COMPUTING AND THAT’S WHEN IT RUNS AWAY WITH ITSELF, SO YOU LOSE CONTROL.  BUT AT THE SAME TIME IT BECOMES MORE LIKE A DANCE.  YOU STOP DIRECTING THE STORY AND YOU START TO PARTICIPATE.

C: BUT THERE’S ALSO ANOTHER SENSE IN WHICH I THINK I BECOME A JOURNALIST.  I BECOME A CAMERA DESCRIBING WHAT I’M SEEING AND I’M JUST SIMPLY TRYING TO KEEP UP.

G: I HEAR THE CHARACTERS AND I’M TRYING TO CATCH AND HOLD ON TO THE DIALOGUE.  ROBIN – SLOW DOWN! [ LAUGHTER]

C: IF I AM DANCING, I’M A BAD PARTNER.  BECAUSE I’M NOT DANCING FAST ENOUGH.

G: SOME OF THEM CAN BE TRICKY.

C: FUCKING TIMING

G: ESPECIALLY THE SIX-LEGGED ONES.  THEY’RE THE HARDEST TO DANCE WITH.

C: MORE QUESTIONS?

QUESTION 7: I WANTED TO GIVE YOU SPECIAL ACKNOWLEDGEMENT, GRANT, FOR CREATING LORD FANNY, THIS AMAZING TRANSGENDER CHARACTER IN THE INVISIBLES.

G: THANK YOU.

QUESTION 7: MR. BARKER, WOULD EITHER OF YOU HAVE SOME THOUGHTS ABOUT HOW GAY AND LESBIAN CHARACTERS ARE WOEFULLY UNDERSERVED AND UNDER-REPRESENTED IN MAJOR COMICS PUBLICATIONS?   THANK YOU.

G: NOBODY WANTS TO DO IT IN SUCH A WAY THAT IT’S PREPOSTEROUS, LIKE IN ALPHA FLIGHT, BUT AT THE SAME TIME A FEW YEARS PASS AND YOU HAVE NOSTALGIA FOR HIM AND THINK, NO, HE WAS A PRETTY GOOD GAY CHARACTER COMPARED TO SOME OF THE OTHER ONES.  PEOPLE ARE SCARED OF IT.  THERE JUST AREN’T ENOUGH GAY WRITERS IN COMIC BOOKS.

QUESTION 7: WHY SHOULD THAT BE?

G: IT’S VERY STRANGE.  I DON’T KNOW WHY, I HAVE NO IDEA WHY IT’S NOT HAPPENING.

C: I THINK THE VIBE WHICH IS PUT OUT BY THE INDUSTRY ISN’T VERY ATTRACTIVE TO GAY WRITERS.  I THINK WE ARE MARGINALIZED INSTANTLY.  I REMEMBER GOING TO MARVEL AND PROPOSING A WHOLE BUNCH OF COMICS IN WHICH THE MAJOR CHARACTER WAS GAY, THIS WAS WAY BACK, FIFTEEN YEARS AGO.  I COULDN’T GET A SINGLE IDEA THROUGH.  NOT ONE.  AND WE’RE NOT TALKING ABOUT COMICS ALONE, ARE WE?  I’VE ALWAYS SAID, WE WILL KNOW WE HAVE WON SOMETHING WHEN WE HAVE A GAY INDIANA JONES.  AND WE ARE A VERY, VERY, VERY LONG WAY AWAY FROM A GAY INDIANA JONES.

G: I TRIED TO DO AN AUTHORITY BOOK, THEY ASKED ME TO DO AN AUTHORITY HARDCOVER.  THE THING ABOUT THE AUTHORITY IS THAT TWO MEMBERS OF THE TEAM ARE GAY.  SO I DECIDED IT WAS SET IN THE FUTURE, THE AUTHORITY OF TOMORROW, IN WHICH EVERYONE IS GAY EXCEPT ONE GUY.  [LAUGHTER]  I JUST COULDN’T GET IT PAST THEM AT ALL.  IT WAS REALLY NICE.  IT OPENS WITH THIS GUY CALLED REESE-SOMETHING AND HE SAYS, “IF THE WORLD’S SO PERFECT, WHY AM I SO SAD?”  HE BECOMES THE NEW DOCTOR.  AND THE WAY HE APPROACHES IT IS TO BE A SPIN DOCTOR, A MAGICAL VERSION OF A SPIN DOCTOR.  SO HE STARTS MAKING THINGS UP.  AND THE END OF IT, THE GAY AUTHORITY GO OFF ON THIS MISSION AND THE CARRIER’S BABY UNIVERSE, Y’KNOW THE LITTLE UNIVERSE THAT POWERS THE CARRIER’S ENGINE HAS GROWN UP INTO A TEENAGER AND IT’S GOT HORNY.  [LAUGHTER]  SO THEY HAVE TO TAKE IT OUT BEYOND THE SHOALS OF THE INFINITE TO SET IT LOOSE AMONG ALL THE OTHER SPAWNING UNIVERSES.

C: FUCK!  THAT’S AWESOME!

G: THAT ONE NEVER GOT PUBLISHED AND I DON’T KNOW WHY.

C: NO, I DON’T UNDERSTAND WHY EITHER GIVEN HOW RADICAL SOME OF THE AUTHORITY STORIES HAVE BEEN.

G: SO THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE ALL-GAY AUTHORITY, WHICH WOULD HAVE BEEN REALLY GOOD, I THINK.

C: I WANT TO SAY JUST ONE OTHER THING.  COMICS ARE RELENTLESS VIOLENCE.  THERE’S MORE BLOOD IN COMICS THAN THERE HAS BEEN IN A LONG, LONG TIME.  I TOLD YOU, I WAS IN HERE TO PICK UP MY PULL, 30 COMICS, EVERY SINGLE COVER HAD BLOOD ON IT.  IN THAT WORLD, I’M NOT SURE THERE’S ROOM FOR LOVE, NEVER MIND GAY LOVE.  I THINK THE REPRESENTATIONS OF LOVE ARE FOR SHIT IN MAINSTREAM COMICS RIGHT NOW.  I DON’T KNOW WHETHER IT WOULD BE A POINT OF PRIDE, FRANKLY, TO ACTUALLY BE INCLUDED.  LOVE IS A COMPLICATED, RICH THING AND SO OFTEN IT GETS USED IN COMICS AS A MEANS TO DESTROY.  AS A METHOD OF DESTRUCTION OF A MAN.  WOULD YOU AGREE?

G: I THINK THERE’S THAT.  THERE’S BEEN SO MANY DIFFERENT APPROACHES.  I’VE SEEN LOTS OF THEM THROUGH THE DECADES.

C: JUST LOOK AT THE ULTIMATES, FOR INSTANCE.  THERE WAS A GREAT CHANCE TO TAKE A TAUTOLOGY AND REVISIT IT AND, Y’KNOW, STEVE ROGERS SUCKS COCK.  WHY NOT?  [LAUGHTER]

G: WELL, HE’S COMING BACK.  YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT HE’S COMING BACK LIKE.  [LAUGHTER]  THAT TIME AWAY HAS LOOSENED HIM UP A LITTLE.

C: SOMEHOW I DON’T THINK COCKSUCKING IS ON THE AGENDA.

G: (LAUGHING) ON THE ROGERS AGENDA! [LAUGHTER]

C: ROGERING AND ROGERING.  YOU CAN HIDE A LOT BEHIND A SHIELD. [LAUGHTER] YOU CAN QUOTE ME.  WHAT I’M SAYING IS I THINK THAT COMICS, MAINSTREAM COMICS – THERE WAS THIS TIME TEN YEARS AGO, WE ALL THOUGHT ADULTHOOD SUMMONED US, RIGHT?  AS A COMMUNITY, AS FANS, AS WRITERS, AS ARTISTS…AND IT NEVER HAPPENED.  WE ARE, WE LIVE IN A MALADJUSTED STATE.  I WOULD LOVE TO PICK UP A COMIC THAT DIDN’T HAVE FIVE PAGES OF KICKING THE SHIT OUT OF PEOPLE AS THE SOLUTION TO THE NARRATIVE.  [LAUGHTER]  RIGHT?  IT BECOMES TORTURE UPON TORTURE.  HOW MUCH WORSE CAN THE TORTURE GET?  HAVE YOU GOT FOUR EYES?  GREAT!  WE’LL PUT MORE OUT.  THERE’S A LARGER ISSUE THAN SIMPLY HOMOSEXUAL AFFECTION.  THERE’S THE ISSUE OF AFFECTION.  AND MOVIES HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM.  THEY’RE NOT SOLVING THE PROBLEM ANY BETTER.

G: WE’RE ALSO, WE’RE PEOPLE WHO LIKE TO PLAY WITH THAT, WE LIKE TO PLAY WITH THAT FEAR.  WE’RE OBSESSED WITH VIOLENCE BECAUSE MOST OF US DON’T HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT IN OUR REAL LIVES.

C: BUT IF WE DID, IT WOULD CHANGE.

G: IT WOULD CHANGE BUT I DON’T THINK WE’D WANT TO LOOK AT IT IN OUR ART QUITE AS MUCH.

C: YEAH.

G: IF YOU WERE EVER IN THE MIDDLE OF ANGOLA OR SOMEWHERE AWFUL IN AFRICA OR SOMEWHERE IN THE THIRD WORLD WHERE LIFE IS CHEAP AND YOU EXPERIENCED VIOLENCE EVERY DAY – AND I COULD SAY THE SAME ABOUT GLASGOW OR LIVERPOOL OR SOME PARTS OF AMERICA – BUT WHERE LIFE IS CHEAP THESE THINGS AREN’T ENTERTAINMENT.  WE LIVE IN A REALLY QUITE SOPHISTICATED STAR TREK KIND OF WORLD WHERE WE CAN PLAY WITH FEAR AND ENJOY IT AS ENTERTAINMENT BECAUSE IT REALLY DOESN’T TOUCH OUR LIVES.  IT’S BECOME A TOY FOR US.  BUT MAYBE IT’S NOT SO BAD.  THERE HAS TO BE SOME GOOD IN IT.  THERE HAS TO BE SOME UNDERSTANDING THAT COMES FROM IT.

C: I ALSO KNOW FROM MY EXPERIENCE IN THE THIRD WORLD, MY DEALINGS WITH PUBLISHERS WHO PUBLISH MY WORK, THEY DON’T PAY ME FOR IT, THEY PUBLISH IT ANYWAY, IN AFRICA OR WHERE EVER, THE ATMOSPHERE IS THAT THE AUDIENCE IS THERE.  EVEN IN THE DARKEST OF SOCIAL CIRCUMSTANCES, PEOPLE WANT THE STORIES THAT CONTAIN VIOLENCE.

G: THEN IT’S THE HUMAN HERITAGE.

C: THE ADRENALIN PUMPS AND WE FEEL GOOD ABOUT OURSELVES.  I KNOW YOU’VE GOT TO SIGN A LOT OF COMIC BOOKS.  I WANT TO THANK MISTER GRANT MORRISON.  THANK YOU.

[APPLAUSE]

END AT 42:45

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